[R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
Frank E Harrell Jr
f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu
Tue Mar 3 14:41:55 CET 2009
Ajay ohri wrote:
> for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive
> analytics world for 3 plus decades.
> I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
>
> i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
>
> It basically is meant only for SAS users who want to learn R ,
> without upsetting the schedule of the corporate users.
>
> Simply put , it is a wrapper on SAS language using the function command...ie
> procunivariate function in "Anne" package would call the summary function
> and so on...
Go ahead and add to the confusion. You've already created some by using
summary for procunivariate. I created the describe function in the
Hmisc package to replace univariate.
Frank
>
> Regards,
>
> Ajay
>
> www.decisionstats.com
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Greg Snow <Greg.Snow at imail.org> wrote:
>
>> This does not really address my point. Yes, if the few nerds who want to
>> do funny stuff are the ones making the purchase, then there is a good chance
>> (but still not guaranteed) that they will get IML, but do all companies that
>> buy SAS actually think about that, or do they just see the extra price (no
>> matter how low), or not even think to look at that piece because the person
>> making the purchase does not really the funny things you can do with it.
>>
>> If you want your SAS code to be able to be run by anyone with SAS, you
>> cannot assume that they have IML. If you want your R code to be run by
>> anyone, you cannot make your code dependent on packages/tools that are not
>> available for all platforms.
>>
>> --
>> Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
>> Statistical Data Center
>> Intermountain Healthcare
>> greg.snow at imail.org
>> 801.408.8111
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gerard M. Keogh [mailto:GMKeogh at justice.ie]
>>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM
>>> To: Greg Snow
>>> Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list; r-help-bounces at r-project.org
>>> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>>>
>>> Yes Greg,
>>>
>>> but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty cheaply - SAS
>>> think
>>> it's only for a few nerds out there who wan to do funny stuff.
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg Snow
>>> <Greg.Snow at imail.
>>> org>
>>> To
>>> Sent by: "Gerard M. Keogh"
>>> r-help-bounces at r- <GMKeogh at justice.ie>, Frank E
>>> project.org Harrell Jr
>>> <f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu>
>>>
>>> cc
>>> 27/02/2009 19:05 "r-help-bounces at r-project.org"
>>> <r-help-bounces at r-project.org>,
>>> R
>>> list <r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch>
>>>
>>> Subject
>>> Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS
>>> Programming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But SAS/IML is not part of base SAS, it costs extra, so there is a good
>>> chance that a user that has SAS will not be able to run code that uses
>>> SAS/IML.
>>>
>>> I have known of SAS programmers who know IML well that still write
>>> matrix/vector tools using macros or proc transpose so that a user
>>> without
>>> IML can still use the code (the fact that the code that started this
>>> thread
>>> was found on a website, suggests that it was meant for general use
>>> rather
>>> than something only used internally where you know what add-ons will be
>>> available).
>>>
>>> Just another way that R makes life easier for both programmer and user.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
>>> Statistical Data Center
>>> Intermountain Healthcare
>>> greg.snow at imail.org
>>> 801.408.8111
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: r-help-bounces at r-project.org [mailto:r-help-bounces at r-
>>>> project.org] On Behalf Of Gerard M. Keogh
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:19 AM
>>>> To: Frank E Harrell Jr
>>>> Cc: r-help-bounces at r-project.org; R list
>>>> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>>>>
>>>> Yes Frank, I accept your point but nevertheless IML is the proper
>>> place
>>>> for
>>>> matrix work in SAS - mixing macro-level logic and computation is
>>>> another
>>>> question - R is certainly more seemless in this respect.
>>>>
>>>> Gerard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank E Harrell
>>>> Jr
>>>> <f.harrell at vander
>>>> To
>>>> bilt.edu> "Gerard M. Keogh"
>>>> <GMKeogh at justice.ie>
>>>> 27/02/2009 13:55
>>>> cc
>>>> R list <r-
>>>> help at stat.math.ethz.ch>,
>>>> r-help-bounces at r-project.org
>>>>
>>>> Subject
>>>> Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS
>>>> Programming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gerard M. Keogh wrote:
>>>>> Frank,
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't see the code you mention - Web marshall at work - but I
>>> don't
>>>> think
>>>>> you should be too quick to run down SAS - it's a powerful and
>>>> flexible
>>>>> language but unfortunately very expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your example mentions doing a vector product in the macro language
>>> -
>>>> this
>>>>> only suggest to me that those people writing the code need a crash
>>>> course
>>>>> in SAS/IML (the matrix language). SAS is designed to work on
>>> records
>>>> and
>>>> so
>>>>> is inapproprorriate for matrices - macros are only an efficient
>>> code
>>>>> copying device. Doing matrix computations in this way is pretty mad
>>>> and
>>>> the
>>>>> code would be impossible never mind the memory problems.
>>>>> SAS recognise that but a lot of SAS users remain familiar with IML.
>>>>>
>>>>> In IML by contrast there are inner, cross and outer products and a
>>>> raft
>>>> of
>>>>> other useful methods for matrix work that R users would be familiar
>>>> with.
>>>>> OLS for example is one line:
>>>>>
>>>>> b = solve(X`X, X`y) ;
>>>>> rss = sqrt(ssq(y - Xb)) ;
>>>>>
>>>>> And to give you a flavour of IML's capabilities I implemented a SAS
>>>> version
>>>>> of the MARS program in it about 6 or 7 years ago.
>>>>> BTW SPSS also has a matrix language.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerard
>>>> But try this:
>>>>
>>>> PROC IML;
>>>> ... some custom user code ...
>>>> ... loop over j=1 to 10 ...
>>>> ... PROC GENMOD, output results back to IML
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> IML is only a partial solution since it is not integrated with the
>>> PROC
>>>> step.
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank E Harrell
>>>>> Jr
>>>>> <f.harrell at vander
>>>> To
>>>>> bilt.edu> R list <r-
>>>> help at stat.math.ethz.ch>
>>>>
>>>>> Sent by:
>>>> cc
>>>>> r-help-bounces at r-
>>>>> project.org
>>>> Subject
>>>>> [R] Inefficiency of SAS
>>>> Programming
>>>>> 26/02/2009 22:57
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to
>>>>> program in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US
>>>>> Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and
>>>>> reporting for hospital outcomes at
>>>>> http://www.qualityindicators.ahrq.gov/software.htm . The
>>> PSSASP3.SAS
>>>>> program is a prime example. Look at how you do a vector product in
>>>> the
>>>>> SAS macro language to evaluate predictions from a logistic
>>> regression
>>>>> model. I estimate that using R would easily cut the programming
>>> time
>>>> of
>>>>> this set of programs by a factor of 4.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank
>>>>> --
>>>>> Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of
>>> Medicine
>>>>> Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt
>>>> University
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>>>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine
>>>> Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt
>>>> University
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
>>>> guide.html
>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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--
Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine
Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt University
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